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HI Matthias,
Much obliged for the info, I’d be most interested in the studies/articles you have, I’ve been conducting a comprehensive lit review over the last 12 months and quite a number I’ve found offer conflicting advice. Could I possibly bounce a few questions off you? Maybe you can PM me at jcasey@tealwash.com.au when convenient.
With regards to the food industry, though it is difficult to deduce a situation when a ‘patient’ would be specifically known to be infected, in light of its increasing prevalence and the lack of testing in the food industry perhaps preventative measures are better than reactionary in these settings.
Kind regards,
James Casey
Business Development
Manager
Tealwash Pty Ltd
a member of the Transplumb group.
Mobile +61 438 175 504
Phone +61 3 8336 1899 – ext 3
Email jcasey@tealwash.com.au
72b Barrie Road, Tullamarine 3043,
VIC, Australia.
James,
Thank you. With regard to C. difficile and in healthcare, the situation is fairly clear and handwashing is recommended if a patient is specifically known to be infected. (Difficult to deduce a similar situation in the food industry).
With regard to non-enveloped viruses, a few years ago I have compared in some detail the published log reduction factors (as a marker for pathogen elimination) of handwashing versus regular/standard formulations of alcohol-based hand rubs, and the result was that there is not much difference, i.e. the two perform very similarly against these viruses.
To recapitulate, one of the main advantages of ABHRs is that in most situations they are far superior to handwashing in eliminating pathogens from hands. When hands are contaminated with “usual” pathogens, a handwash typically achieves a 1-2 log (factor 10-100) reduction (the 100 is already very optimistic), while ABHRs typically achieve somewhere between a 2-4 log reduction (factor 100-10000). Handwashing with antiseptic soaps/detergents is usually in between the two, but falls short of achieving the reduction of well-formulated handrubs.
However, virucidal hand rubs do achieve better reduction factors against non-enveloped viruses than washing. There are several such products on the market in Europe, and I believe some may be available in the US, but they may not yet be on the market in Australia. I have some articles, but I am currently away from work, and can send you some when I am back in early February.
I can’t comment much on the other requirements in the food industry, such as the possibility of frequent contamination of hands with organic matter.
Sorry, I did not understand the part of your sentence that says “it appears it is simply coherence of the message vis–vis hand hygiene and healthcare workers which seems to override”.
Best regards, Matthias.
—
Matthias Maiwald, MD, FRCPA
Consultant in Microbiology
Adj. Assoc. Prof., Natl. Univ. Singapore
Department of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine
KK Women’s and Children’s Hospital
100 Bukit Timah Road
Singapore 229899
Tel. +65 6394 8725 (Office)
Tel. +65 6394 1389 (Laboratory)
Fax +65 6394 1387
________________________________
Hi Andrea,
Thank you for the feedback. Apologies for the incorrect word use, ie virus and C diff.
I believe the ASID/AICA position on the matter is that gloves should be worn, if not worn, or if hands become soiled, then use soap (microbial or otherwise) and water. (ASID/AICA position statement – Infection control guidelines for patients with Clostridium difficile infection in healthcare settings 2011).
Am I right in saying that you recommend a good reference point for the overlap between food and healthcare hand hygiene guidelines would be the veterinary industry?
Kind regards,
James Casey
Business Development
Manager
Tealwash Pty Ltd
a member of the Transplumb group.
Mobile +61 438 175 504
Phone +61 3 8336 1899 – ext 3
Email jcasey@tealwash.com.au
72b Barrie Road, Tullamarine 3043,
VIC, Australia.
Hi James,
Thanks for the comments.
Clostridium difficile is not a virus…..very important distinction from Norovirus.
it is recommended staff use an antimicrobial Handwashing product after contact with patients with CDAD (Clostridium difficile associated diarrhoea), not social handwash or soap and water.
Given that many animals can become infected with C. difficile perhaps you could look at what is recommended in veterinary practice?
Regards Andrea Menzies
Andrea Menzies
RN | Infection Prevention and Control | Health Directorate
Building 10, Level 4 | The Canberra Hospital | Garran ACT 2605
The very first requirement in a hospital is that it should do the sick no harm.
Florence NightingaleCare | Excellence | Collaboration | Integrity
Hi All,
I work for a company with significant overlap in both the food and medical industries. The regulations/recommendations/overall leanings are certainly clear with regards to each industry individually. The Food Industry subscribes to soap and warm water washing (see AUSNZ Food Standard 3.2.2 Division 4-1 and 4-2, as well as 3.2.3 Division 4-1) and the Medical to alcohol based sanitiser (WHO, CDC, HHA, NHMRC etc). What is less clear however is when they overlap. To my knowledge I do not know of any intersecting guidelines (happy to be pointed in the right direction!).
As far as the Science goes, the inconsistencies between the two are a reflection perhaps of the differing routes of infection, and the prominence of different outbreaks in each industry. As Cath noted the FDA has a good summary of the reasoning for this but basically it comes down to the fact that pathogens in the food industry (in terms of human transmission) are more likely to be transmitted via the faecal-oral route as opposed to the person-to-person route seen in the medical industry. For this reason alone notable viruses such as Clostridium Difficile and Norovirus are prevalent in the food industry and as such, soap and water hand washing are the better alternative due to the documented inadequacy of alcohol sanitisers in dealing with the two.
Further to this, the increased risk of hands being physically soiled in the food service industry due to foodstuffs etc compels the mechanical removal of physical contaminants, ie soap and water.
For me it would come down to a balance of applicability. Whether you think the kitchens food activities outweigh their exposure to the hospital setting or vice-versa.
I hope I’ve given a fair and balanced response, very happy to provide references. I look forward to your feedback J
Kind regards,
James Casey
Business Development
Manager
Tealwash Pty Ltd
a member of the Transplumb group.
Mobile +61 438 175 504
Phone +61 3 8336 1899 – ext 3
Email jcasey@tealwash.com.au
72b Barrie Road, Tullamarine 3043,
VIC, Australia.
Hi Cath
I am not sure I can place my hand on my heart and say that our Australian / New Zealand Food Safety Standards (http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/) are actually fully based on evidence and supported by evidence, but they are certainly well accepted within the food industry and by the food industry regulators.
Here is an example from NSW about food safe chemicals, which includes ‘hand sanitisers’… http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/industry/food-business-issues/chemicals-suitability/
Cheers
Michael
Michael Wishart
CNC Infection Control
Holy Spirit Northside Private Hospital
627 Rode Road, Chermside, Qld 4032
t: (07) 3326 3068 | f: (07) 3607 2226
w:www.holyspiritnorthside.org.au
Please consider the environment before printing this email
Hi Michael
Could you please provide a link of title of those “food safety recommendations” Michael. I’m keen to see what science they are based on.
Cheers
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
Hi Cath
Food safety recommendations preclude use of non-food safe chemicals in the food processing environment, which precludes use of most alcohol based hand hygiene products and some antiseptic products. I do believe there are some waterless hand hygiene products (not sure if some of these should be considered ‘alcohol’ based, though) that are approved as ‘food safe’, but most of those alcohol based hand hygiene products routinely in use in healthcare have not been approved as ‘food safe’. Thus, the use of alcohol based hand hygiene products within certain parts of food services with healthcare facilities is problematic, which is why I think this is a good question, and I believe the responses have indicated this.
In regard to mentioning of brand names, yes, we generally try to recommend avoiding use of brand names in discussions where possible, but this creates some work for both myself as the moderator and the list subscribers who are replying. Rather than bog the list down in administrative emails and such, I have preferred to weigh up the issue of posting of actual product names with the benefits of open discussion. For example, in this instance, my belief was it was useful to see which actual products are being used in what aspects of food service delivery (eg ward delivery vs food production), as this was conducive to the conversation. This approach had been supported by previous ACIPC / AICA executives, although like all things, this is open to review with further comments from the membership.
It is always useful to examine what we are discussing, how we are discussing it, and what benefit and risk these discussions may have, so I thank you for your comments. More discussion is always welcomed!
Cheers
Michael Wishart
Infexion Connexion Administrator
Michael Wishart
CNC Infection Control
Holy Spirit Northside Private Hospital
627 Rode Road, Chermside, Qld 4032
t: (07) 3326 3068 | f: (07) 3607 2226
w:www.holyspiritnorthside.org.au
Please consider the environment before printing this email
Hi Marlize
I’m curious about the question and the responses. As I understand it there have been no scientific reports or official Australian public policy directives that suggest differentiating between what is available in public areas, in the wards where staff perform hand hygiene before feeding patients and/or in kitchens or food prep areas. I checked the WHO Guidelines from 2009 and they also appear to be silent on the issue.
Given that one of the basic tenets to improve hand hygiene compliance is standardisation I would think it wise if you introduced or continued to use a neutral liquid soap identical to that used in the settings mentioned above. The key points are making sure kitchen staff understand the importance of HH as part of food hygiene, that they perform it when needed (including when on the ward if potentially exposed) and that their technique and wearing of gloves is performed in such a way that the skin on their hands is maintained. It would be an education rather than a product issue I think.
As always I am surprised to see brand names mentioned here in the forum given its policies and conditions around promotion etc it would be more ethical to stick to using generic terms but perhaps the moderator can advise. Also my experience would indicate that if you raised the issue of HH for kitchen staff your current supplier of HH product would no doubt be able to provide you with data and information regarding suitability of their product in that setting.
Good luck and thanks for making me curious 😉
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
Dear All,
We are currently looking for a alcohol based hand sanitiser to use in our Food Service Department. I was wondering what the practices are out there, and what product you are using in your Food Service Departments and on your food delivering trolleys?
Thank you and regards
Marlize Senekal
Infection Prevention and Control Coordinator
St. Andrew’s War Memorial Hospital
457 Wickham Terrace, Spring Hill
Brisbane
Ph. 07-3834 4444
Ext. 4328, Pg. 0328
_________________________________________________________________
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Hi Andrea,
Thank you for the feedback. Apologies for the incorrect word use, ie
virus and C diff.I believe the ASID/AICA position on the matter is that gloves should be
worn, if not worn, or if hands become soiled, then use soap (microbial
or otherwise) and water. (ASID/AICA position statement – Infection
control guidelines for patients with Clostridium difficile infection in
healthcare settings 2011).Am I right in saying that you recommend a good reference point for the
overlap between food and healthcare hand hygiene guidelines would be the
veterinary industry?Kind regards,
James Casey
Business Development
Manager
Tealwash Pty Ltd
a member of the Transplumb group.
Mobile +61 438 175 504
Phone +61 3 8336 1899 – ext 3
Email jcasey@tealwash.com.au
72b Barrie Road, Tullamarine 3043,
VIC, Australia.
Behalf Of Menzies, Andrea
Hi James,
Thanks for the comments.
Clostridium difficile is not a virus…..very important distinction from
Norovirus.it is recommended staff use an antimicrobial Handwashing product after
contact with patients with CDAD (Clostridium difficile associated
diarrhoea), not social handwash or soap and water.Given that many animals can become infected with C. difficile perhaps
you could look at what is recommended in veterinary practice?Regards Andrea Menzies
Andrea Menzies
RN | Infection Prevention and Control | Health Directorate
Building 10, Level 4 | The Canberra Hospital | Garran ACT 2605
The very first requirement in a hospital is that it should do the sick
no harm.
Florence NightingaleCare | Excellence | Collaboration | Integrity
CH_Logo_ACT_Health_Lockup_CMYK_HR
Behalf Of James Casey
Hi All,
I work for a company with significant overlap in both the food and
medical industries. The regulations/recommendations/overall leanings
are certainly clear with regards to each industry individually. The
Food Industry subscribes to soap and warm water washing (see AUSNZ Food
Standard 3.2.2 Division 4-1 and 4-2, as well as 3.2.3 Division 4-1) and
the Medical to alcohol based sanitiser (WHO, CDC, HHA, NHMRC etc).
What is less clear however is when they overlap. To my knowledge I do
not know of any intersecting guidelines (happy to be pointed in the
right direction!).As far as the Science goes, the inconsistencies between the two are a
reflection perhaps of the differing routes of infection, and the
prominence of different outbreaks in each industry. As Cath noted the
FDA has a good summary of the reasoning for this but basically it comes
down to the fact that pathogens in the food industry (in terms of human
transmission) are more likely to be transmitted via the faecal-oral
route as opposed to the person-to-person route seen in the medical
industry. For this reason alone notable viruses such as Clostridium
Difficile and Norovirus are prevalent in the food industry and as such,
soap and water hand washing are the better alternative due to the
documented inadequacy of alcohol sanitisers in dealing with the two.Further to this, the increased risk of hands being physically soiled in
the food service industry due to foodstuffs etc compels the mechanical
removal of physical contaminants, ie soap and water.For me it would come down to a balance of applicability. Whether you
think the kitchens food activities outweigh their exposure to the
hospital setting or vice-versa.I hope I’ve given a fair and balanced response, very happy to provide
references. I look forward to your feedback JKind regards,
James Casey
Business Development
Manager
tealwash-no-plumbing-RBG-small3 (2)
Tealwash Pty Ltd
a member of the Transplumb group.
Mobile +61 438 175 504
Phone +61 3 8336 1899 – ext 3
Email jcasey@tealwash.com.au
72b Barrie Road, Tullamarine 3043,
VIC, Australia.
Behalf Of Michael Wishart
Hi Cath
I am not sure I can place my hand on my heart and say that our
Australian / New Zealand Food Safety Standards
(http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/) are actually fully based on evidence
and supported by evidence, but they are certainly well accepted within
the food industry and by the food industry regulators.Here is an example from NSW about food safe chemicals, which includes
‘hand sanitisers’…
http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/industry/food-business-issues/chemic
als-suitability/Cheers
Michael
Michael Wishart
CNC Infection Control
Holy Spirit Northside Private Hospital
627 Rode Road, Chermside, Qld 4032
t: (07) 3326 3068 | f: (07) 3607 2226
w:www.holyspiritnorthside.org.au
Please consider the environment before printing this email
Behalf Of Cath Murphy
Hi Michael
Could you please provide a link of title of those “food safety
recommendations” Michael. I’m keen to see what science they are based
on.Cheers
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
FB logo Description:
icp iconBehalf Of Michael Wishart
Hi Cath
Food safety recommendations preclude use of non-food safe chemicals in
the food processing environment, which precludes use of most alcohol
based hand hygiene products and some antiseptic products. I do believe
there are some waterless hand hygiene products (not sure if some of
these should be considered ‘alcohol’ based, though) that are approved as
‘food safe’, but most of those alcohol based hand hygiene products
routinely in use in healthcare have not been approved as ‘food safe’.
Thus, the use of alcohol based hand hygiene products within certain
parts of food services with healthcare facilities is problematic, which
is why I think this is a good question, and I believe the responses have
indicated this.In regard to mentioning of brand names, yes, we generally try to
recommend avoiding use of brand names in discussions where possible, but
this creates some work for both myself as the moderator and the list
subscribers who are replying. Rather than bog the list down in
administrative emails and such, I have preferred to weigh up the issue
of posting of actual product names with the benefits of open discussion.
For example, in this instance, my belief was it was useful to see which
actual products are being used in what aspects of food service delivery
(eg ward delivery vs food production), as this was conducive to the
conversation. This approach had been supported by previous ACIPC / AICA
executives, although like all things, this is open to review with
further comments from the membership.It is always useful to examine what we are discussing, how we are
discussing it, and what benefit and risk these discussions may have, so
I thank you for your comments. More discussion is always welcomed!Cheers
Michael Wishart
Infexion Connexion Administrator
Michael Wishart
CNC Infection Control
Holy Spirit Northside Private Hospital
627 Rode Road, Chermside, Qld 4032
t: (07) 3326 3068 | f: (07) 3607 2226
w:www.holyspiritnorthside.org.au
Please consider the environment before printing this email
Behalf Of Cath Murphy
Hi Marlize
I’m curious about the question and the responses. As I understand it
there have been no scientific reports or official Australian public
policy directives that suggest differentiating between what is available
in public areas, in the wards where staff perform hand hygiene before
feeding patients and/or in kitchens or food prep areas. I checked the
WHO Guidelines from 2009 and they also appear to be silent on the issue.Given that one of the basic tenets to improve hand hygiene compliance is
standardisation I would think it wise if you introduced or continued to
use a neutral liquid soap identical to that used in the settings
mentioned above. The key points are making sure kitchen staff understand
the importance of HH as part of food hygiene, that they perform it when
needed (including when on the ward if potentially exposed) and that
their technique and wearing of gloves is performed in such a way that
the skin on their hands is maintained. It would be an education rather
than a product issue I think.As always I am surprised to see brand names mentioned here in the forum
given its policies and conditions around promotion etc it would be more
ethical to stick to using generic terms but perhaps the moderator can
advise. Also my experience would indicate that if you raised the issue
of HH for kitchen staff your current supplier of HH product would no
doubt be able to provide you with data and information regarding
suitability of their product in that setting.Good luck and thanks for making me curious 😉
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
FB logo Description:
icp iconBehalf Of SAWMH.ICC
Dear All,
We are currently looking for a alcohol based hand sanitiser to use in
our Food Service Department. I was wondering what the practices are out
there, and what product you are using in your Food Service Departments
and on your food delivering trolleys?Thank you and regards
Marlize Senekal
Infection Prevention and Control Coordinator
St. Andrew’s War Memorial Hospital
457 Wickham Terrace, Spring Hill
Brisbane
Ph. 07-3834 4444
Ext. 4328, Pg. 0328
_________________________________________________________________
Uniting Care Health Email Disclaimer:
http://www.uchealth.com.au/disclaimerMessages posted to this list are solely the opinion of the authors, and
do not represent the opinion of ACIPC.Archive of all messages are available at http://aicalist.org.au/archives
– registration and login required.Replies to this message will be directed back to the list. To create a
new message send an email to aicalist@aicalist.org.auTo send a message to the list administrator send an email to
aicalist-request@aicalist.org.au.You can unsubscribe from this list be sending ‘signoff aicalist’
(without the quotes) to listserv@aicalist.org.auMessages posted to this list are solely the opinion of the authors, and
do not represent the opinion of ACIPC.Archive of all messages are available at http://aicalist.org.au/archives
– registration and login required.Replies to this message will be directed back to the list. To create a
new message send an email to aicalist@aicalist.org.auTo send a message to the list administrator send an email to
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(without the quotes) to listserv@aicalist.org.auMessage protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content
filtering.
http://www.mailguard.com.au/mgReport this message as spam
WARNING : This email contains information, which is CONFIDENTIAL, and
that maybe subject to LEGAL PRIVILEGE. This e-mail and any attachments
to it (the “Communication”) is confidential and is for the use only of
the intended recipient, and may not duplicated or used by any other
party without the express consent of the sender. The Communication may
contain copyright material of St Vincent’s Health & Aged Care(“SVHAC”),
or any of its related entities or of third parties. If you are not the
intended recipient of the Communication, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail, delete the Communication, and do not read,
copy, print, retransmit, store or act in reliance on the Communication.
Any views expressed in the Communication are those of the individual
sender only, unless expressly stated to be those of SVHAC. SVHAC does
not guarantee the integrity of the Communication, or that it is free
from errors, viruses or interference. Thank-you.Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content
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No worries Marlize,
Cath – I agree, and I think everyone would agree that open discussion and evidence based conclusions are how we achieve the best possible outcomes.
Matthias – there’s a good article in ‘Food Technology’ Sept 2012 issue detailing the emergence of C Diff in the food industry and the recognition of animals and foods as an increasing source of exposure.
I’d be interested in your information on virucidal ABHR’s and non-enveloped viruses (studies, new products etc). Most of the studies I’ve read are either inconclusive or detail the inadequacy of ABHR’s in removal of spores and non-enveloped viruses, it appears it is simply coherence of the message vis–vis hand hygiene and healthcare workers which seems to override.
Kind regards,
James Casey
Business Development
Manager
Tealwash Pty Ltd
a member of the Transplumb group.
Mobile +61 438 175 504
Phone +61 3 8336 1899 – ext 3
Email jcasey@tealwash.com.au
72b Barrie Road, Tullamarine 3043,
VIC, Australia.
Thanks Cath, Michael and James,
I’m glad I’ve posted the question for discussion. I also had concerns regarding the intruduction of ABHR into kitchen itself, not only do you have infection control issues but most of the products we currently use in Clinical areas, contains > 70% alcohol and are flammable. Thanks for your thoughts, these were, as always very helpful.
Regards
Marlize Senekal
Infection Prevention and Control Coordinator
St. Andrew’s War Memorial Hospital
457 Wickham Terrace, Spring Hill
Brisbane
Ph. 07-3834 4444
Ext. 4328, Pg. 0328
________________________________
Great points James. Thank you for the thoughtful discussion and considerations. V interesting. Also reminds me of the importance of unwell kitchen staff absenting themselves from work for 48hrs post symptoms in the event of V&D type illness.
You gotta love the diversity and debate around infection prevention and control.
Cheers
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
Hi All,
I work for a company with significant overlap in both the food and medical industries. The regulations/recommendations/overall leanings are certainly clear with regards to each industry individually. The Food Industry subscribes to soap and warm water washing (see AUSNZ Food Standard 3.2.2 Division 4-1 and 4-2, as well as 3.2.3 Division 4-1) and the Medical to alcohol based sanitiser (WHO, CDC, HHA, NHMRC etc). What is less clear however is when they overlap. To my knowledge I do not know of any intersecting guidelines (happy to be pointed in the right direction!).
As far as the Science goes, the inconsistencies between the two are a reflection perhaps of the differing routes of infection, and the prominence of different outbreaks in each industry. As Cath noted the FDA has a good summary of the reasoning for this but basically it comes down to the fact that pathogens in the food industry (in terms of human transmission) are more likely to be transmitted via the faecal-oral route as opposed to the person-to-person route seen in the medical industry. For this reason alone notable viruses such as Clostridium Difficile and Norovirus are prevalent in the food industry and as such, soap and water hand washing are the better alternative due to the documented inadequacy of alcohol sanitisers in dealing with the two.
Further to this, the increased risk of hands being physically soiled in the food service industry due to foodstuffs etc compels the mechanical removal of physical contaminants, ie soap and water.
For me it would come down to a balance of applicability. Whether you think the kitchens food activities outweigh their exposure to the hospital setting or vice-versa.
I hope I’ve given a fair and balanced response, very happy to provide references. I look forward to your feedback J
Kind regards,
James Casey
Business Development
Manager
tealwash-no-plumbing-RBG-small3 (2)
Tealwash Pty Ltd
a member of the Transplumb group.
Mobile +61 438 175 504
Phone +61 3 8336 1899 – ext 3
Email jcasey@tealwash.com.au
72b Barrie Road, Tullamarine 3043,
VIC, Australia.
Hi Cath
I am not sure I can place my hand on my heart and say that our Australian / New Zealand Food Safety Standards (http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/) are actually fully based on evidence and supported by evidence, but they are certainly well accepted within the food industry and by the food industry regulators.
Here is an example from NSW about food safe chemicals, which includes ‘hand sanitisers’… http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/industry/food-business-issues/chemicals-suitability/
Cheers
Michael
Michael Wishart
CNC Infection Control
Holy Spirit Northside Private Hospital
627 Rode Road, Chermside, Qld 4032
t: (07) 3326 3068 | f: (07) 3607 2226
w:www.holyspiritnorthside.org.au
Please consider the environment before printing this email
Hi Michael
Could you please provide a link of title of those “food safety recommendations” Michael. I’m keen to see what science they are based on.
Cheers
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
Hi Cath
Food safety recommendations preclude use of non-food safe chemicals in the food processing environment, which precludes use of most alcohol based hand hygiene products and some antiseptic products. I do believe there are some waterless hand hygiene products (not sure if some of these should be considered ‘alcohol’ based, though) that are approved as ‘food safe’, but most of those alcohol based hand hygiene products routinely in use in healthcare have not been approved as ‘food safe’. Thus, the use of alcohol based hand hygiene products within certain parts of food services with healthcare facilities is problematic, which is why I think this is a good question, and I believe the responses have indicated this.
In regard to mentioning of brand names, yes, we generally try to recommend avoiding use of brand names in discussions where possible, but this creates some work for both myself as the moderator and the list subscribers who are replying. Rather than bog the list down in administrative emails and such, I have preferred to weigh up the issue of posting of actual product names with the benefits of open discussion. For example, in this instance, my belief was it was useful to see which actual products are being used in what aspects of food service delivery (eg ward delivery vs food production), as this was conducive to the conversation. This approach had been supported by previous ACIPC / AICA executives, although like all things, this is open to review with further comments from the membership.
It is always useful to examine what we are discussing, how we are discussing it, and what benefit and risk these discussions may have, so I thank you for your comments. More discussion is always welcomed!
Cheers
Michael Wishart
Infexion Connexion Administrator
Michael Wishart
CNC Infection Control
Holy Spirit Northside Private Hospital
627 Rode Road, Chermside, Qld 4032
t: (07) 3326 3068 | f: (07) 3607 2226
w:www.holyspiritnorthside.org.au
Please consider the environment before printing this email
Hi Marlize
I’m curious about the question and the responses. As I understand it there have been no scientific reports or official Australian public policy directives that suggest differentiating between what is available in public areas, in the wards where staff perform hand hygiene before feeding patients and/or in kitchens or food prep areas. I checked the WHO Guidelines from 2009 and they also appear to be silent on the issue.
Given that one of the basic tenets to improve hand hygiene compliance is standardisation I would think it wise if you introduced or continued to use a neutral liquid soap identical to that used in the settings mentioned above. The key points are making sure kitchen staff understand the importance of HH as part of food hygiene, that they perform it when needed (including when on the ward if potentially exposed) and that their technique and wearing of gloves is performed in such a way that the skin on their hands is maintained. It would be an education rather than a product issue I think.
As always I am surprised to see brand names mentioned here in the forum given its policies and conditions around promotion etc it would be more ethical to stick to using generic terms but perhaps the moderator can advise. Also my experience would indicate that if you raised the issue of HH for kitchen staff your current supplier of HH product would no doubt be able to provide you with data and information regarding suitability of their product in that setting.
Good luck and thanks for making me curious 😉
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
Dear All,
We are currently looking for a alcohol based hand sanitiser to use in our Food Service Department. I was wondering what the practices are out there, and what product you are using in your Food Service Departments and on your food delivering trolleys?
Thank you and regards
Marlize Senekal
Infection Prevention and Control Coordinator
St. Andrew’s War Memorial Hospital
457 Wickham Terrace, Spring Hill
Brisbane
Ph. 07-3834 4444
Ext. 4328, Pg. 0328
_________________________________________________________________
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Hi All,
I work for a company with significant overlap in both the food and
medical industries. The regulations/recommendations/overall leanings
are certainly clear with regards to each industry individually. The
Food Industry subscribes to soap and warm water washing (see AUSNZ Food
Standard 3.2.2 Division 4-1 and 4-2, as well as 3.2.3 Division 4-1) and
the Medical to alcohol based sanitiser (WHO, CDC, HHA, NHMRC etc).
What is less clear however is when they overlap. To my knowledge I do
not know of any intersecting guidelines (happy to be pointed in the
right direction!).As far as the Science goes, the inconsistencies between the two are a
reflection perhaps of the differing routes of infection, and the
prominence of different outbreaks in each industry. As Cath noted the
FDA has a good summary of the reasoning for this but basically it comes
down to the fact that pathogens in the food industry (in terms of human
transmission) are more likely to be transmitted via the faecal-oral
route as opposed to the person-to-person route seen in the medical
industry. For this reason alone notable viruses such as Clostridium
Difficile and Norovirus are prevalent in the food industry and as such,
soap and water hand washing are the better alternative due to the
documented inadequacy of alcohol sanitisers in dealing with the two.Further to this, the increased risk of hands being physically soiled in
the food service industry due to foodstuffs etc compels the mechanical
removal of physical contaminants, ie soap and water.For me it would come down to a balance of applicability. Whether you
think the kitchens food activities outweigh their exposure to the
hospital setting or vice-versa.I hope I’ve given a fair and balanced response, very happy to provide
references. I look forward to your feedback JKind regards,
James Casey
Business Development
Manager
Tealwash Pty Ltd
a member of the Transplumb group.
Mobile +61 438 175 504
Phone +61 3 8336 1899 – ext 3
Email jcasey@tealwash.com.au
72b Barrie Road, Tullamarine 3043,
VIC, Australia.
Behalf Of Michael Wishart
Hi Cath
I am not sure I can place my hand on my heart and say that our
Australian / New Zealand Food Safety Standards (
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/) are actually fully based on evidence
and supported by evidence, but they are certainly well accepted within
the food industry and by the food industry regulators.Here is an example from NSW about food safe chemicals, which includes
‘hand sanitisers’…
http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/industry/food-business-issues/chemic
als-suitability/Cheers
Michael
Michael Wishart
CNC Infection Control
Holy Spirit Northside Private Hospital
627 Rode Road, Chermside, Qld 4032
t: (07) 3326 3068 | f: (07) 3607 2226
w:www.holyspiritnorthside.org.au
Please consider the environment before printing this email
Behalf Of Cath Murphy
Hi Michael
Could you please provide a link of title of those “food safety
recommendations” Michael. I’m keen to see what science they are based
on.Cheers
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
FB logo Description:
icp iconBehalf Of Michael Wishart
Hi Cath
Food safety recommendations preclude use of non-food safe chemicals in
the food processing environment, which precludes use of most alcohol
based hand hygiene products and some antiseptic products. I do believe
there are some waterless hand hygiene products (not sure if some of
these should be considered ‘alcohol’ based, though) that are approved as
‘food safe’, but most of those alcohol based hand hygiene products
routinely in use in healthcare have not been approved as ‘food safe’.
Thus, the use of alcohol based hand hygiene products within certain
parts of food services with healthcare facilities is problematic, which
is why I think this is a good question, and I believe the responses have
indicated this.In regard to mentioning of brand names, yes, we generally try to
recommend avoiding use of brand names in discussions where possible, but
this creates some work for both myself as the moderator and the list
subscribers who are replying. Rather than bog the list down in
administrative emails and such, I have preferred to weigh up the issue
of posting of actual product names with the benefits of open discussion.
For example, in this instance, my belief was it was useful to see which
actual products are being used in what aspects of food service delivery
(eg ward delivery vs food production), as this was conducive to the
conversation. This approach had been supported by previous ACIPC / AICA
executives, although like all things, this is open to review with
further comments from the membership.It is always useful to examine what we are discussing, how we are
discussing it, and what benefit and risk these discussions may have, so
I thank you for your comments. More discussion is always welcomed!Cheers
Michael Wishart
Infexion Connexion Administrator
Michael Wishart
CNC Infection Control
Holy Spirit Northside Private Hospital
627 Rode Road, Chermside, Qld 4032
t: (07) 3326 3068 | f: (07) 3607 2226
w:www.holyspiritnorthside.org.au
Please consider the environment before printing this email
Behalf Of Cath Murphy
Hi Marlize
I’m curious about the question and the responses. As I understand it
there have been no scientific reports or official Australian public
policy directives that suggest differentiating between what is available
in public areas, in the wards where staff perform hand hygiene before
feeding patients and/or in kitchens or food prep areas. I checked the
WHO Guidelines from 2009 and they also appear to be silent on the issue.Given that one of the basic tenets to improve hand hygiene compliance is
standardisation I would think it wise if you introduced or continued to
use a neutral liquid soap identical to that used in the settings
mentioned above. The key points are making sure kitchen staff understand
the importance of HH as part of food hygiene, that they perform it when
needed (including when on the ward if potentially exposed) and that
their technique and wearing of gloves is performed in such a way that
the skin on their hands is maintained. It would be an education rather
than a product issue I think.As always I am surprised to see brand names mentioned here in the forum
given its policies and conditions around promotion etc it would be more
ethical to stick to using generic terms but perhaps the moderator can
advise. Also my experience would indicate that if you raised the issue
of HH for kitchen staff your current supplier of HH product would no
doubt be able to provide you with data and information regarding
suitability of their product in that setting.Good luck and thanks for making me curious 😉
Cath
Cathryn Murphy PhD
Executive Director
Infection Control Plus Pty Ltd
http://www.infectioncontrolplus.com.au
FB logo Description:
icp iconBehalf Of SAWMH.ICC
Dear All,
We are currently looking for a alcohol based hand sanitiser to use in
our Food Service Department. I was wondering what the practices are out
there, and what product you are using in your Food Service Departments
and on your food delivering trolleys?Thank you and regards
Marlize Senekal
Infection Prevention and Control Coordinator
St. Andrew’s War Memorial Hospital
457 Wickham Terrace, Spring Hill
Brisbane
Ph. 07-3834 4444
Ext. 4328, Pg. 0328
_________________________________________________________________
Uniting Care Health Email Disclaimer:
http://www.uchealth.com.au/disclaimerMessages posted to this list are solely the opinion of the authors, and
do not represent the opinion of ACIPC.Archive of all messages are available at http://aicalist.org.au/archives
– registration and login required.Replies to this message will be directed back to the list. To create a
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to it (the “Communication”) is confidential and is for the use only of
the intended recipient, and may not duplicated or used by any other
party without the express consent of the sender. The Communication may
contain copyright material of St Vincent’s Health & Aged Care(“SVHAC”),
or any of its related entities or of third parties. If you are not the
intended recipient of the Communication, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail, delete the Communication, and do not read,
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Any views expressed in the Communication are those of the individual
sender only, unless expressly stated to be those of SVHAC. SVHAC does
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from errors, viruses or interference. Thank-you.Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content
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