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  • #81464
    Anonymous
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    Anonymous

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    Hi all,
    Febrile neutropenia patient that has 3 lumen Picc- line insitu, what is the rationale of taking blood cultures of EACH lumen please?

    as per eviQ on management febrile neutropenia, 1 set blood cultures (aerobic and anaerobic bottles) from each lumen of central venous access device (CVAD) (if in situ)

    What about the blood loss?

    Aspasia Kordanouli
    Infection Control Nurse
    Calvary North Adelaide Hospital
    89 Strangways Terrace North Adelaide SA 5006

    E: Aspasia.Kordanouli@calvarycare.org.au
    http://www.calvarynorthadelaide.org.au

    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

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    #81466
    Maretta Vincart
    Participant

    Author:
    Maretta Vincart

    Position:

    Organisation:

    State:

    Hello Aspasia

    It is essential to take cultures from all possible sources. Infection could be brewing in any of the lumens hence why they take from all linens. Blood loss should be negligible unless they are repeating cultures on a regular basis. It’s common practice particularly for oncology patients.

    Kind Regards
    Maretta

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    Hi all,
    Febrile neutropenia patient that has 3 lumen Picc- line insitu, what is the rationale of taking blood cultures of EACH lumen please?

    as per eviQ on management febrile neutropenia, 1 set blood cultures (aerobic and anaerobic bottles) from each lumen of central venous access device (CVAD) (if in situ)

    What about the blood loss?

    Aspasia Kordanouli
    Infection Control Nurse

    Calvary North Adelaide Hospital
    89 Strangways Terrace North Adelaide SA 5006

    E: Aspasia.Kordanouli@calvarycare.org.au
    http://www.calvarynorthadelaide.org.au

    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at http://aicalist.org.au/archives – registration and login required.

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    #81468
    Michael Wishart
    Participant

    Author:
    Michael Wishart

    Position:

    Organisation:

    State:
    NSW

    Hi Aspasia

    Blood cultures drawn through central device lumens can be very informative in regard to potential sources of infection. If you have positive growth in lumen collected blood cultures, and negative peripheral blood cultures, this can help determine the need for treatment, including the need to remove or replace lines. Blood cultures from lumens that return positive growth more rapidly than peripheral collections can also help guide appropriate treatment and potentially indicate a source.

    Cheers
    Michael

    Michael Wishart | Infection Control Coordinator, CICP-E

    St Vincents Private Hospital Northside | 627 Rode Road CHERMSIDE QLD 4032
    M +61 448 954 282 | T +61 7 3326 3068 | F +61 7 3607 2226
    E michael.wishart@svha.org.au |
    W https://www.svphn.org.au

    St Vincents Private Hospital Brisbane | 411 Main Street KANGAROO POINT QLD 4169
    M +61 448 954 282 | T +61 7 3240 1208 | F +61 7 3240 1166
    E michael.wishart@svha.org.au |
    W https://www.svphb.org.au

    —–Original Message—–
    From: ACIPC Infexion Connexion On Behalf Of Aspasia Kordanouli
    Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2022 3:56 PM
    To: ACIPCLIST@ACIPC.ORG.AU
    Subject: [ACIPC_Infexion_Connexion] 3 lumen Picc line Blood culture

    Hi all,
    Febrile neutropenia patient that has 3 lumen Picc- line insitu, what is the rationale of taking blood cultures of EACH lumen please?

    as per eviQ on management febrile neutropenia, 1 set blood cultures (aerobic and anaerobic bottles) from each lumen of central venous access device (CVAD) (if in situ)

    What about the blood loss?

    Aspasia Kordanouli
    Infection Control Nurse

    Calvary North Adelaide Hospital
    89 Strangways Terrace North Adelaide SA 5006

    E: Aspasia.Kordanouli@calvarycare.org.au
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.calvarynorthadelaide.org.au__;!!LUsMDrd6!mzAOsp0GAmG-vWMDsVxHCjEJ-Q3ri5dt7CyWcr9htC9LPxkeAcf910hj0mlArWZSEn-2C4jmNl9x78QxtPffQfYJXRDWDSLppASVO8CG$

    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://aicalist.org.au/archives__;!!LUsMDrd6!mzAOsp0GAmG-vWMDsVxHCjEJ-Q3ri5dt7CyWcr9htC9LPxkeAcf910hj0mlArWZSEn-2C4jmNl9x78QxtPffQfYJXRDWDSLppI8AE9M2$ – registration and login required.

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    This email and any attachments to it (the “Email”) is confidential and is for the use only of the intended recipient, and may not be duplicated or used by any other party without the express consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient of the Email, please notify the sender immediately by return email, delete the Email, and do not copy, print, retransmit, store or act in reliance on the Email. St Vincent’s Health Australia (“SVHA”) does not guarantee that the Email is free from errors, viruses or interference. Emails to and from SVHA or its related entities may be scanned and filtered in locations outside Australia

    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at http://aicalist.org.au/archives – registration and login required.

    Replies to this message will be directed back to the list. To create a new message send an email to acipclist@acipc.org.au

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    #81474
    Edward.Raby@health.wa.gov.au
    Participant

    Author:
    Edward.Raby@health.wa.gov.au

    Position:

    Organisation:

    State:

    Hi Aspasia,

    Great question. Biofilm can grow in the fibrin clot/sheath at the tip of the catheter, on the outer surface of the catheter or inside the lumens which in the early stages may just be a single lumen. Needless connectors can also become colonised. The recommendation to culture every lumen is based on Guembe (CID, 2010) who looked at 171 episodes of catheter related bloodstream infection – they found that 37% of infections would have been missed if only a single lumen was sampled. Similar findings from a smaller study by Robinson (J Ped Haem/Onc, 2002) in a paediatric haem-onc population where 32% of 41 episodes would have been missed.

    Concern has been raised about the volume of blood required and risk of iatrogenic anaemia. Herrera-Guerra (Am J Infection Control, 2015) proposed a pooled culture technique where blood was taken from each lumen and used to inoculate a single blood culture bottle in comparison to traditional culture of each lumen. Also this was effective, I cannot see that it has been taken up elsewhere. I think this deserves consideration. Another thought I had is to only collect a single aerobic bottle from each lumen, knowing that almost all line pathogens do not need the specialised anaerobic environment – I don’t think this has been studied – has anyone seen this data?

    For now, guidelines recommend a set of blood cultures from each lumen in addition to a peripheral set whenever catheter associated bloodstream infection is considered possible. An important aspect to note is that needless connectors should be replaced prior to sampling.

    Kind regards,
    Ed

    —–Original Message—–
    From: ACIPC Infexion Connexion On Behalf Of Michael Wishart
    Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2022 6:40 AM
    To: ACIPCLIST@ACIPC.ORG.AU
    Subject: Re: [ACIPC_Infexion_Connexion] 3 lumen Picc line Blood culture

    CAUTION External Communication: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

    Hi Aspasia

    Blood cultures drawn through central device lumens can be very informative in regard to potential sources of infection. If you have positive growth in lumen collected blood cultures, and negative peripheral blood cultures, this can help determine the need for treatment, including the need to remove or replace lines. Blood cultures from lumens that return positive growth more rapidly than peripheral collections can also help guide appropriate treatment and potentially indicate a source.

    Cheers
    Michael

    Michael Wishart | Infection Control Coordinator, CICP-E

    St Vincents Private Hospital Northside | 627 Rode Road CHERMSIDE QLD 4032 M +61 448 954 282 | T +61 7 3326 3068 | F +61 7 3607 2226 E michael.wishart@svha.org.au | W https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.svphn.org.au__;!!Lav448XFWxY!8bLSSTavpwUE7zNOmuvjTlE3Ke3_chKFmFOtyFtKq8bq_MfWT4rV42xPtRTEE9_xpRFnWn3CQ4JS6LIgzfq1I-dLebxB7O8JFvY$

    St Vincents Private Hospital Brisbane | 411 Main Street KANGAROO POINT QLD 4169 M +61 448 954 282 | T +61 7 3240 1208 | F +61 7 3240 1166 E michael.wishart@svha.org.au | W https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.svphb.org.au__;!!Lav448XFWxY!8bLSSTavpwUE7zNOmuvjTlE3Ke3_chKFmFOtyFtKq8bq_MfWT4rV42xPtRTEE9_xpRFnWn3CQ4JS6LIgzfq1I-dLebxBGJtjmGs$

    —–Original Message—–
    From: ACIPC Infexion Connexion On Behalf Of Aspasia Kordanouli
    Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2022 3:56 PM
    To: ACIPCLIST@ACIPC.ORG.AU
    Subject: [ACIPC_Infexion_Connexion] 3 lumen Picc line Blood culture

    Hi all,
    Febrile neutropenia patient that has 3 lumen Picc- line insitu, what is the rationale of taking blood cultures of EACH lumen please?

    as per eviQ on management febrile neutropenia, 1 set blood cultures (aerobic and anaerobic bottles) from each lumen of central venous access device (CVAD) (if in situ)

    What about the blood loss?

    Aspasia Kordanouli
    Infection Control Nurse

    Calvary North Adelaide Hospital
    89 Strangways Terrace North Adelaide SA 5006

    E: Aspasia.Kordanouli@calvarycare.org.au
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.calvarynorthadelaide.org.au__;!!LUsMDrd6!mzAOsp0GAmG-vWMDsVxHCjEJ-Q3ri5dt7CyWcr9htC9LPxkeAcf910hj0mlArWZSEn-2C4jmNl9x78QxtPffQfYJXRDWDSLppASVO8CG$

    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://aicalist.org.au/archives__;!!LUsMDrd6!mzAOsp0GAmG-vWMDsVxHCjEJ-Q3ri5dt7CyWcr9htC9LPxkeAcf910hj0mlArWZSEn-2C4jmNl9x78QxtPffQfYJXRDWDSLppI8AE9M2$ – registration and login required.

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    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://aicalist.org.au/archives__;!!Lav448XFWxY!8bLSSTavpwUE7zNOmuvjTlE3Ke3_chKFmFOtyFtKq8bq_MfWT4rV42xPtRTEE9_xpRFnWn3CQ4JS6LIgzfq1I-dLebxBQL1KYCk$ – registration and login required.

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    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at http://aicalist.org.au/archives – registration and login required.

    Replies to this message will be directed back to the list. To create a new message send an email to acipclist@acipc.org.au

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    #81476
    Edward.Raby@health.wa.gov.au
    Participant

    Author:
    Edward.Raby@health.wa.gov.au

    Position:

    Organisation:

    State:

    Hi Aspasia,

    Great question. Biofilm can grow in the fibrin clot/sheath at the tip of the catheter, on the outer surface of the catheter or inside the lumens which in the early stages may just be a single lumen. Needless connectors can also become colonised. The recommendation to culture every lumen is based on Guembe (CID, 2010) who looked at 171 episodes of catheter related bloodstream infection – they found that 37% of infections would have been missed if only a single lumen was sampled. Similar findings from a smaller study by Robinson (J Ped Haem/Onc, 2002) in a paediatric haem-onc population where 32% of 41 episodes would have been missed.

    Concern has been raised about the volume of blood required and risk of iatrogenic anaemia. Herrera-Guerra (Am J Infection Control, 2015) proposed a pooled culture technique where blood was taken from each lumen and used to inoculate a single blood culture bottle in comparison to traditional culture of each lumen. Also this was effective, I cannot see that it has been taken up elsewhere. I think this deserves consideration. Another thought I had is to only collect a single aerobic bottle from each lumen, knowing that almost all line pathogens do not need the specialised anaerobic environment – I don’t think this has been studied – has anyone seen this data?

    For now, guidelines recommend a set of blood cultures from each lumen in addition to a peripheral set whenever catheter associated bloodstream infection is considered possible. An important aspect to note is that needless connectors should be replaced prior to sampling.

    Kind regards,
    Ed

    Dr Edward Raby
    Medical Director of IPC
    South Metropolitan Health Service, WA

    —–Original Message—–
    From: ACIPC Infexion Connexion On Behalf Of Michael Wishart
    Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2022 6:40 AM
    To: ACIPCLIST@ACIPC.ORG.AU
    Subject: Re: [ACIPC_Infexion_Connexion] 3 lumen Picc line Blood culture

    CAUTION External Communication: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

    Hi Aspasia

    Blood cultures drawn through central device lumens can be very informative in regard to potential sources of infection. If you have positive growth in lumen collected blood cultures, and negative peripheral blood cultures, this can help determine the need for treatment, including the need to remove or replace lines. Blood cultures from lumens that return positive growth more rapidly than peripheral collections can also help guide appropriate treatment and potentially indicate a source.

    Cheers
    Michael

    Michael Wishart | Infection Control Coordinator, CICP-E

    St Vincents Private Hospital Northside | 627 Rode Road CHERMSIDE QLD 4032 M +61 448 954 282 | T +61 7 3326 3068 | F +61 7 3607 2226 E michael.wishart@svha.org.au | W https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.svphn.org.au__;!!Lav448XFWxY!8bLSSTavpwUE7zNOmuvjTlE3Ke3_chKFmFOtyFtKq8bq_MfWT4rV42xPtRTEE9_xpRFnWn3CQ4JS6LIgzfq1I-dLebxB7O8JFvY$

    St Vincents Private Hospital Brisbane | 411 Main Street KANGAROO POINT QLD 4169 M +61 448 954 282 | T +61 7 3240 1208 | F +61 7 3240 1166 E michael.wishart@svha.org.au | W https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.svphb.org.au__;!!Lav448XFWxY!8bLSSTavpwUE7zNOmuvjTlE3Ke3_chKFmFOtyFtKq8bq_MfWT4rV42xPtRTEE9_xpRFnWn3CQ4JS6LIgzfq1I-dLebxBGJtjmGs$

    —–Original Message—–
    From: ACIPC Infexion Connexion On Behalf Of Aspasia Kordanouli
    Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2022 3:56 PM
    To: ACIPCLIST@ACIPC.ORG.AU
    Subject: [ACIPC_Infexion_Connexion] 3 lumen Picc line Blood culture

    Hi all,
    Febrile neutropenia patient that has 3 lumen Picc- line insitu, what is the rationale of taking blood cultures of EACH lumen please?

    as per eviQ on management febrile neutropenia, 1 set blood cultures (aerobic and anaerobic bottles) from each lumen of central venous access device (CVAD) (if in situ)

    What about the blood loss?

    Aspasia Kordanouli
    Infection Control Nurse

    Calvary North Adelaide Hospital
    89 Strangways Terrace North Adelaide SA 5006

    E: Aspasia.Kordanouli@calvarycare.org.au
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.calvarynorthadelaide.org.au__;!!LUsMDrd6!mzAOsp0GAmG-vWMDsVxHCjEJ-Q3ri5dt7CyWcr9htC9LPxkeAcf910hj0mlArWZSEn-2C4jmNl9x78QxtPffQfYJXRDWDSLppASVO8CG$

    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://aicalist.org.au/archives__;!!LUsMDrd6!mzAOsp0GAmG-vWMDsVxHCjEJ-Q3ri5dt7CyWcr9htC9LPxkeAcf910hj0mlArWZSEn-2C4jmNl9x78QxtPffQfYJXRDWDSLppI8AE9M2$ – registration and login required.

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    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://aicalist.org.au/archives__;!!Lav448XFWxY!8bLSSTavpwUE7zNOmuvjTlE3Ke3_chKFmFOtyFtKq8bq_MfWT4rV42xPtRTEE9_xpRFnWn3CQ4JS6LIgzfq1I-dLebxBQL1KYCk$ – registration and login required.

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    MESSAGES POSTED TO THIS LIST ARE SOLELY THE OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF ACIPC.

    The use of trade/product/commercial brand names through the list is discouraged by ACIPC. If you wish to discuss specific reference to products or services by brand or commercial names, please do this outside the list.

    Archive of all messages are available at http://aicalist.org.au/archives – registration and login required.

    Replies to this message will be directed back to the list. To create a new message send an email to acipclist@acipc.org.au

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